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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  November 25, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PST

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see you next send. >> chris: i'm chris wallace. people take to the streets of cairo to protest the egyptian president power grab and fallout continues over the benghazi terror attack. we'll discuss the situation in egypt. the cease-fire in gaza, and the libya investigation when we sit down with senator john mccain. it's a fox news sunday exclusive. then is the looming fiscal cliff casting a shadow over shoppers and investors this holiday season? visions of bargains are dancing in the heads of consumers. will the possibility of higher attackses slow them down.
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we'll talk with matthew shay, president of the national retail federation and john sweeney of fidelity investments. the holiday is over for white house and congressional leaders trying to make a deal. we'll ask our sunday panel if they can reach a compromise. a thanksgiving tradition, our power player of the week has me dancing with turkeys, all right now on "fox news sunday." >> chris: hello again from fox news in washington. on this holiday weekend we're watching several major foreign policy developments from egypt to gaza to the continuing converse over the benghazi attack. to talk about it all is senator john mccain. welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> thank you. dancing with turkeys? >> chris: you'll have to wait until the end of the show to see.
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>> that's what we're doing now. >> chris: let's start with egypt where president morsi granted himself unchecked powers and sent thousands of protesters back into the streets, people who had been helping to topple mubarak, now against the man they call the new egypt egyptian pharaoh. what are the chances we're headed for a new islamist coo in egypt? >> it could be headed that way. you could also be headed back to a military takeover. if things went in the wrong direction. you could also see a scenario where there's continued chaos. i'll never forget after i was in egypt, i met with the young people who made the revolution in the square. a young woman said it's not the first election we worry about, it's the second. that's what we have to worry about, a repeat of the iranian experience. what should the united states of america do? saying this unacceptable.
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we thank mr. morsi for his efforts in brokering a cease-fire, which is fragile but this is not what the united states of america taxpayers expect and our dollars will be directly related to the progress towards democracy which you promised the people of egypt when your party and you were elected president. >> chris: let's talk about that because morsi took his steps ours after secretary of state hillary clinton praised him for helping to broker the peace deal between hamas and israel and the administration issued the state department a tepid criticism. how tough should they get? should they say you have to pull back? what should our demands and leverage be? >> our leverage is not only substantial bayance and aid, plus an imf deal but the
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marshaling world public opinion is also against this kind of move by mr. morsi. we appreciate president morsi's action but in the past it's always been the united states that's brokered these deals and there's a clear perception amongst hamas that they won on this one. unfortunately the plo, abbas and others, have been diminished as a result of the negotiations and settlement reached. i predict hamas will continue to test the israelis and how far they can government finally let's trace it back to iran. where did the missiles come from? iran. where are the iranian revolutionary guard on the ground, irsyria. the centrifuge continues to spin in tehran. we've got to face up to what is one of the prime reasons there's the kind of unrest we're seeing.
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>> let me button you up the morsi thing. what should our demand be? >> stop. stop, renounce the statement and move he just made. allow the judiciary to function. if the judiciary is flawed in some way, then that's a illness that can be cured over time but to assume this kind of power is unacceptable to the united states of america. then we can outline what actions should be taken. >> chris: you already led us that direction but to the cease-fire, the very fragile cease-fire that was worked out this week between israel and hamas. how fragile is it, what do you make of it? we saw long range iranian missiles fired at tel aviv and jerusalem which raises the question, if israel takes action against iran's nuclear program
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what's the threat they face on the border with gaza? >> they face a significant challenge with hezbollah because of the tens of thousands of missiles in southern lebanon. i think the iranians will continue unless they see there's a price to pay. you you be states and israel to say there's a line you cannot across. as a result of recent events, the president and prime minister of israel's relationship is dramatically improved. it's time we work together and recognize that iran is not just nuclear weapons. i outlined the other things plus orbiting straighting act of -- orbiting straighting acts of terror including attempting to assassinate the saudi embassador. we have to develop a strategy to counter that. >> the director of national
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intelligence says he was responsible for watering down -- editing, the talking points that u.n. embassador susan rice used when she went on five sunday talk shows, the famous picture of it, to talk about benghazi but you say a few days before the -- his office said they were responsible for editorring talking points, in a closed door hearing, james clapper told you and other senators he didn't know who was responsible. where does this investigation stand and how do you get to the bottom of it? >> well, it's like any other -- it's assumed the proportions of any other major scandal. there are many layers onion. all kinds of questions raised. i saw the director of national intelligence say he didn't know where these talking points were edited. and now he's saying he did. we'll be interested how that transpired. the biggest aspect of this whole
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thing is it's got to be looked into, why there was such a failure on the part of the administration in light of events the two our embassy, the assassination attempt on the british embassador, they closed their -- all this long train of events that made our consulate in benghazi a death trap. during that, why didn't we have military capabilities close by, especially on september 11. >> chris: after all these hearings, and we're two months out, do you have any answers as to why we weren't better prepared? >> no we ought to know why two weeks later the president of the united states at the united nations was talking about hateful videos. so many things need to be resolved. there are four committees in the house, four committees in the senate, all holding hearings, turf fights going on as there
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usually is and we need a select committee to sort this out. to find out what happened but also we can't ever again have a tragedy such as took place in benghazi. it could have have been prevented. now we have to make sure there are ways to make sure it doesn't happen. >> chris: you say you'll do everything in your power to block susan rice's nomination if the president names her to be secretary of state. she said this week that all she did was rely on the intelligence communities talking points and went on to say this about you. take a look. >> i do think that some of the statements he's made about me have been unfounded but i look forward to having the opportunity at the appropriate time to discuss all of this with him. >> chris: is there anything that embassador rice can do to shake your mind? >> change your mind? >> she can give everyone the benefit of explaining their petition and axes they took. i'll be glad to have the
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opportunity to discuss these issues with her. why did she say that -- why did she say that al-qaeda has been decimated in her statement here on this program? al-qaeda hasn't been decimated. they're on the rise. they're all over iraq. they're in training camps n libya, they're on the rise everywhere in the middle east. there's a lot of questions we have for embassador rice and she would -- i'm sure i'll have the opportunity to discuss these with her. >> chris: you're saying that she could conceivably get your vote for secretary of state? >> she deserves the ability and the opportunity to explain herself and her position just as she said. but she's not the problem. the problem is the president of the united states, who in a debate with mitt romney, said he had said it was a terrorist attack. he hadn't. that night on "60 minutes" he said they didn't know what kind of attack it was and he continued -- >> chris: he said in an
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interview with 60 minutes. >> which we didn't see until after the election. i'm sure it was such an inconsequential statement it didn't deserve the attention of the american people. >> chris: one more aspect. house democratic leader james clyburn said lindsey graham and you have used racial codewords to go after susan rice. take a look. >> senator mccain called her incompetent but he told us sarah palin was a competent person. that should tell you about his judgment. >> your reaction. >> you can't dignify comments like that. i have noticed in this town f they can't win the argument on the merits, they resort to personal attacks. it goes with the territory. >> chris: would you agree to raise taxes as part of a solid compromise to avoid a fiscal cliff.
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>> i would opposed to raising tax rates but i believe we can close a lot of loopholes. we can do things to e-- in fact, two other things. one, things like like a limit on the amount of deduction of charitable giving. a limit on the amount you can take on your home loan mortgage deduction and obviously we are going to have to look at entitle reform. entitlement. reform is the only way to get the debt and deficit under control. we've got to take it on. >> chris: let me ask you, you say you would consider more revenue but with loopholes -- >> there's so many of them. >> chris: you voted against the bush tax cuts a decade ago because you said too many of the benefits go to the wealthy, not the middle class. once they were passed you have changed your view and said i'm not going to oppose them. it you could get a deal for
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entitlement reform and take a chunk out of the national debt, why is the 35% top tax rate which you oppose sacred? >> every economist i respect says if you raise tax rates at this time -- the president says that a couple of years ago -- it harms the economy. we're trying to help the economy. unless i'm convinced raising tax rates will be beneficial, obviously i think there's reason and grounds for my position. i also believe that we can and must get an agreement, otherwise i think first of all the markets are going to start reacting. >> chris: we'll talk about that in the next segment. finally the g.o.p. republicans had a rough night on election night. let's look at the breakdown of the numbers. you lost unmarried women by 36 points. hispanics by 44 points. young people by 23 points. does your party need to change,
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especially in its outreach to those groups on social issues like same-sex marriage and immigration reform? >> we have to have a bigger tent. no doubt about it. obviously we have to do immigration reform. there's no doubt whatsoever that the demographics are not on our side and we have to give a much more positive agenda. it can't be just being against the democrats and against harry reid and against obama. you have to be for things. we have to give them the contract with america that we gave them some years ago. we have to give them something to be for. young women, i don't think anybody like me i can state my position on abortion, but to -- other than that, leave the issue alone. when we're in the kind of economic situation and frankly national security situation we're? >> chris: you would say freedom of choice? >> i would allow people to have
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those opinions and respect those opinions. i'm proud of my pro-life position and record but if someone disagrees with me, i respect your views. >> chris: nor -- senator mccain. thank you for being here today. >> 'tis the season to shop and spend. will the coming fiscal cliff put a damper on consumers and investments?
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>> chris: for all of you who survived black friday, here's something new to worry about. christmas is one month from today. a week after that, if nothing gets done here in washington, we all go over the fiscal cliff.
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what does that mean for shoppers and investors in the final days of 2012? we turn to matthew shay, president and c.e.o. of the national retail federation and from newton, massachusetts, john sweeney, executive vice president of fidelity investments. mr. shay, what can you tell us about holiday shopping this long thanksgiving holiday weekend? are people buying? >> it looks like people are buying. the data looks like we had a very business, successful weekend. we know a number of retailers opened earlier, open on thanksgiving, and retailers have been piloting that the last three years. 24% of shoppers were out on thanksgiving by midnight. the numbers will show we did better. we're predicting a 4% increase over sales. last year we did 5.5% actual.
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i'm not sure we'll hit that but the 4% forecast was preelection. we're very bullish. we had a very good weekend. >> chris: christmas shopping for the season was up 5.6% last year. do you think you're going to have that strong a christmas shopping season this year? >> well, thanks to an act of the president 75 years ago, president roosevelt, we have a long holiday season. >> chris: explain because thanksgiving was very early. >> that's right. the 23rd. it can't be earlier than that. >> chris: o was it the 22. >> nd the fourth thursday. that gives us an extra weekend, christmas is on a tuesday so i think we're going to have a nice, long selling season. we're going to see real growth and we'll go back and look in mid december and see whether we need to make an adjustment but
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everything we're heard, we had a great weekend. >> mr. sweeney, the numbers for the markets are not as strong. the dow jones is down 236 points or 1.8% since election day. the question, and this gets us to the main subject today, how much of that do you believe is investor concern about the fiscal cliff? >> when we surveyed our investors, 83% were concerned about the fiscal cliff and the long term national debt. what you've seen, a pullback in the equity markets. we had through the third quarter of this year an equity market up 15%. up 30% year over year and auto you're seeing a pullback from that at that time. couple things, one, when you think about making investment
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decisions, make investing decisions first. it's national to think about rebalancing. when we construct portfolios we focus on the long-term and not short term vagaries of the market. it happens constantly. you look for opportunities where equities appreciated to rebound to fixed income or cash where appropriate. >> i'll come back to the fiscal cliff and impact on investors. mr. shay, how aware are consumers about the coming fiscal cliff and do you get the sense that they are fact organize the uncertaintydy about what is going to happen in their decision about how much to spend this christmas? >> consumers are very aware. we've been in the field since about labor day and the number has ranged from 65% to 80% of respondents. so shoppers have said, they're aware of what's going on. they may not put every facet on what the fiscal cliff means but economic uncertainty generally
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because it's a point of contention between the political parties, we talk about it every day. the leading headlined of the day. they're thinking about it. >> does that mean we're scaling back? >> it means they're not spending as robustly as they would because they don't know what's going to happen. it's very clear as john says about investors that c.e.o.s of companies, large or small, business owners are thinking about what's going on and what might happen next year before they make capital investments. when you think about the retail industry creating 42 million jobs, 95% have a single unit, 50% em employ five people. we need to talk about growth economy. >> chris: mr. sweeney, it gets more complicated than assumers when with when you talk about investors. let's talk about the real world
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consequences for investors if we go over the cliff. between the expiration of the bush tax cuts and higher taxes for obamacare, the top capital gains rate will jump from 15% to 23.8. the top rate on dividends to 43.4. >> you want clarity and with that comes in your personal economy at home, whether you're a c.e.o. or cfo, you want clarity on how to spend your cash. if you're the government, you want to figure out how to impact the spending at the federal level as well. americans are looking for clarity so they can make the decision that is matter in terms of purchasing short term christmas gifts for the selling season or if you're a c.e.o. and investigate in a plant or hiring
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new people. >> chris: if i may. specifically if you have a stock and you see your capital gains, if you sell that stock, could go from 15% to 24% on january 1st, are some people cash out now? >> well, so what we've seen the last year is that people in the search for yield sought out dividend producing equities. with the 10 year treasury yielding 1.5% and s&p 500 2.3% people flocked to dividend producing equities but the pullback in the market has come from high-def denned producing equities that appreciated significantly. telecoms and utilities have been the hardest hit. they've been attractive to investigators but -- investors but the price to earnings ratios are out of line with the rest of what we're seeing in the s&p and diversify industries. >> chris: let me just, if i may,
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mr. sweeney, fidelity did a survey of your investments and you found three quarters of them don't think we're going to go over the cliff. if our leaders come back tomorrow and we go a couple more weeks and suddenly the deal is looked less and less possible and the cliff is getting closer and closer, what kind of impact will that have on the stock market>> we've seen that. as we mentioned, between the end of the third quarter and the past week, you've had volatility in the market. some pullback in tech -- equities. i hope people are doing it from a balancing standpoint. you want to rebalance to fixed income to stick with target assets. >> chris: don't get too technical on us here, sir. i guess the question becomes could you begin to see markets really drop as we get closer to the fiscal cliff? >> i think you've seen some of that already. so what we worry about is the
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shift we saw the last couple years where people abandoned equities post '08 and '09. so we want folks to focus less on the short term, more on the longer term and understand the role of equities in your portfolio and continue to have an appropriate allegation indication for your portfolio. >> i want to ask you, because there are big decisions made the next month, we hope. mr. shay, looking at the varies options mentioned for a possible compromise, are there some things that are better for the retail industry and some things that are worse? >> the best thing i think is to get us to 2013 so we can have a conversation in a comprehensive way about the tax code looking at the entitlement spending, thinking about the long-term issues. what drives the deficit obviously is the spending on
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entitlements. medicare, medicaid and social security. we can't fix this by attacking discretionary spending. it's easy. it's convenient, no one argues. but with political leadership we need specificity. we ought to get a downpayment that gets us into next year and then have a thoughtful discussion about how to make the tax code competitive. lower the tex rate and broaden the base and do things that help us grow. we're talking about 70% of the economy is consumption. if they start to save and people aren't spending when we need them to spend, so going over the fiscal cliff without a barrel, it would be a disaster and people that talk about we could do it and it wouldn't be a bad idea, it would be a terrible idea and we would be back in recession, consumers wouldn't spend. big mistake. >> chris: we have less than a
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minute left. if we get a deal and it's a solid deal, how much of a boost would it be to the markets? how much pentup demand? how much would you capital that's been sitting on the sidelines? i'm asking what's the upside here? >> i think there's cash sitting on the sideline. we've seen increase in flows into the money market funds so you assume there's cash waiting to be be employed -- deployed. we want to have you make sure your burn doesn't exceed your earn. make sure whatever you earn out of your portfolio or paycheck doesn't exceed your capacity to earn. >> chris: we have to leave it there. mr. sweeney, mr. shay, thank you both. thanks for talking with us this holiday week and maybe our leaders will give us a christmas present and pull us back from the fiscal cliff.
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>> cyber monday is tomorrow so we're not done. >> chris: foreign policy hotspots, our sunday group weighs in on egypt, gaza and the probe of the benghazi terror attack. the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone likes 50% more... [ midwestern/chicago accent ] cheddar! yeah! 50 percent more [yodeling] yodel-ay-ee-oo. 50% more flash. [ southern accent ] 50 percent more taters. that's where tots come from. [ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on every purchase plus a 50% annual bonus on the cash you earn. it's the card for people who like more cash. 50% more spy stuff. what's in your wallet? this car is too small.
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i must put myself on a clear path that will lead to the achievement of a clear goal. >> a new era of dictatorship in egypt. >> egyptian president morsi and one of the protesters in the street after morsi grabbed almost total power in that country. it's time for our sunday group. bill kristol of the weekend standard. kirsten powers from the daily beast website. fox news's liz cheney and political analyst juan williams.
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bill, how serious -- do you believe it's morsi claim it's a temporary measure or is this a islamist coo? >> we don't know but we have some influence to make it one over the other. secretary clinton was there and then morsi makes his announcement two days after she levitt the country. this is a place we have no relation with and don't give a lot of aid to so it's a test for the administration. can we pressure morsi and induce morsi to let there be a constitutional process. >> kirsten, how much -- this gets to the question i was discussing with with john mccain. how much can and should the administration do to put pressure on morsi. >> the issue they're facing is
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egypt plays an important role in the situation with israeli. it's interesting after that happened morsi did that. he has a feeling he has a strong hand. they're going to have to figure out how much they need his support in that situation. so that said, they do need to condemn this kind of antidemocratic behavior i think so make it clear that we were behind a democracy and he can't do this kind of antidemocratic thing. >> kirsten made a good point. dealing with hamas, morsi played a constructive role. how tough do we get? >> i'm not sure how much we need him. what happened in terms of the role he played with hamas, you have hamas and muslim brotherhood the same organization. he's somehow the arbiter of disagreements between the israelis and hamas over the
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cease-fire? at the end of the day the real problem as senator mccain pointed out is iran and what happens next. you have had the hamas number 2 since the cease-fire say they'll continue to support hamas. morse i didn't,y, we -- morsi, we need to be clear and strong and i would put a hold on economic aid, look at the military aid and say we do not support this. the problem is our silence is read by people across the middle east as ac ernst he -- ac essen. >> juan, i want you to pick up on the cease-fire. israel and hamas agreeing to a cease-fire but israel says it's going to maintain its border restriction even though they'll talk about it but not lift the naval block aid and hamas says
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they'll arm gaza with rockets that could be fired into israel. how stable is this situation? >> i think there's a peace deal that's foreseeable. it's not difficult to to foresee. the deal is israel stop with the assassinations and hamas stop firing the rockets. the second part is israel would do something in terms of the border crossing, get activity back to normal which is something the palestinians dearly want as well as to have a sense that hamas would stop smuggling of weapons coming from syria. that's why the naval blockade is in place. they have the possibility of the united states coming in. you asked about u.s. pressure but also the u.s. playing a greater role. if the obama administration says let's let them settle it themself but they said we'll play a more aggressive role.
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that's the challenge for the obama administration in the second term where as in the first term they wanted a light footprint. >> there's benghazi. the president, one aspect -- we talked about the investigation. the president is expected to announce a number of top appointments, including cabinet positions in the coming days, conceivably some as soon as this week and one of the questions is, and you see the two of them there, do you think he will take on this fight and name susan rice to be -- secretary of state and do you think the senate will confirm him. >> president obama has confided in me on his secretary of state. i rather think he'll appoint susan rice. i'm not a fab of -- fan of hers but i think she'll be confirmed. john kerry might be a worse secretary of state so maybe one
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goes ahead and lets him have the secretary of state of wants. other maybe one votes against it as senators say she wasn't forth coming in september and she should have known better than to say what she said but since democrats control the senate i assume she'll get concerned. >> chris: what's wrong with john kerry as secretary of state? >> susan rice is nor interventionist. >> john kerry has been against intervening in every war. iraq, he was for it before he was against it. i think susan rice might go with juan and say the light footprint thing isn't working out. >> if one things we're in an incredibly dangerous moment thanks to the light footprint.
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maybe susan rice would be more alarmed than john kerr. >> chris: kirsten, do you think the president will name her? >> i don't know but if he does, it -- that kind of arrogance, could be his under doing because if she's put under oath and forced to go through and answer these questions about benghazi, it's going to put the administration in a bad position. i don't think she was the frontrunner. i don't understand where this came -- everything i heard was she was in the running but it was leaning more towards john kerry then we had a press conference where the president went off about susan rice and it's now become almost a sense of pride. >> chris: do you think he cornered himself, saying what he said and if he doesn't, it would look like he's caving. >> i think he did. i don't know if it was intensal. he went overboard. his defense was fine but it went into an area that didn't make
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sense. if he wants to set her up on the hill and put her under oath and answer every question this administration will not answer, go for it. >> he may nominate her and she ought to be filibuster. she misled the american people. she said she was an expert on north africa. either she knew what she was saying was wrong and knew al-qaeda was not designated because of a -- decimated because of a video or she took talking points and read them without investigating. >> chris: you're shaking your head. go ahead juan. >> that's so unfair. this lady was given intelligence material by the intelligence community. you can blame the intelligence community. there's no way you can blame susan rice and to suggest she's inqualified. she's a rhodes scholar. the ghazi thing is so politicized. time to end it. >> it's time to end this
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segment. when we come back, the president and congressional leaders get back to work monday. will they come up with a way to avoid the fiscal cliff? finishes
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>> we're relegated to a group of people meeting in secret, plotting some sort of scheme that they think is best for america. >> the fiscal cliff is not going to happen. so the ceiling -- the sky's not going to fall. >> chris: senators jeff session and congressman charlie wrangle on prospects for avoiding the fiscal cliff. liz, is charley wrangle right, the sky is not falling?
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>> i wouldn't say charlie's not right. i think the potential damage done by going off the fiscal cliff is so significant i would hope even in this town that's very divided people could come together to avoid it. what concerns me is the whole terrain we're on is an argument about whether or not to raise taxes on upper income earners. the argument ought to be is the president willing to put forward spending proposals and cuts that are serious enough to come to an agreement. the president is pushing a fallacy which i've watched some sundays bill kristol buy into on the panel that we can solve our problem. >> chris: that was a great line. >> but no, this notion that we can solve the problem by raising taxes on the upper income
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earners is ill-advised. >> chris: i'm going to mr. bill kristol an opportunity to respond. juan, the president and others met before thanksgiving and there was positive talk republicans were talking about putting new revenues, if not higher tax rates on the table. the president talked about entitlement reform and spending cuts and the word, unofficial, is they haven't had much progress in -- when it comes to where the rubber meets the road in making a deal. where are we? >> rob neighbors, the president at capitol hill has been leading with republican staff and they've had some basic outlines, possibilities, ideas thrown on the table. but it comes down to the principles and personality of president, john boehner and
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senator reed and senator mcconnell. what's on the table here is of course this week you see more republicans saying we're not going to hold to this grover norquist idea, norquist being the man everybody who is a republican has to sign a no tax increase -- >> chris: they've already sign it had. >> this week you had saxby chambliss from georgia joining people like john mccain, tom coburn and others and 12 members of the house who say republicans have to be willing to -- we did not win the election. the president's back in office, you have to make a deal. the president needs to deal too. this sometimes doesn't get attention but you heard nancy pelosi, harry reid, they expect a deal along with charlie wrangle before the deadline because the unions are advertising say don't you dare cut our programs badly. you see it advertising from the republican side. both sides are under pressure
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for a deal now and they're going to make it. >> chris: that's an optimistic view. bill, let me ask you, you can respond to sister chaney about this. one idea that was floated this week is for top earners to pay instead of raising the top are marginal rate they had pay that top rate now on every dollar they make. let's put up the graphic on the screen to explain it. instead of now you pay 10% of the top 17,000, so many thousand you pay 15%. the idea is instead you would pay 35% on all income from zero to whatever you made, if you were making over $250,000. good idea? >> not particularly. i asked someone on the hill about it and they said no we realize that's not a good idea. the republicans are trying not to raise the top rate while trying to produce more revenues
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and produce more for the wealthy since they're scared of being accused of attacking the middle class. i don't care if we want to find a complicated way to get more revenues. it's easier for give in on the top rate but they've made that a matter of dag ma and i'm not going to break my sword on that. what's the one tax rate going up january 1st that no one's talking about? the payroll tax. remember that? it was cut from 12 to 10%. i gather the republicans have no problem -- i don't know -- but letting working class and middle class americans have a 2% tax increase. that's not currently the republican position that the payroll tax cut should be extended. they're happy to let it go because god forbid they cut entitlements for wealthy seniors. we have a collusion among the elites of both parties. the one tax that goes up
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january 1, if there's a deal s payroll tax, which i think is wrong. republicans have a opportunity to be champions of the working class. >> kirsten, some democrats are saying let's go over the cliff. everybody's tax rates are going to go up and then the president in january can go to congress and say now it's 39.6% and whatever it is for middle class and i'll present a plan that will cut the tax rates of 98% of people, are you prepared now, when the rate is already up, to oppose that? >> the problem with that plan is it's dangerous because we don't know how the markets would react. it makes us look reckless. we could get downgraded. i don't think that's an ideal outcome. it's clever but it's not ideal. obama has the upper hand. i don't think he has to do that. when you have bill crystal and
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chambliss and incoming republicans not signing the tax pledge and saying this doesn't have to be orthodoxy. i agree with bill, i'm sorry, that why -- if you're willing to raise revenues, go back to the clinton race. it's silly. there's more pressure on them and there's no reason for obama to give in. >> it's a fundamental difference about where revenues come from. you know, what republicans i hope will stand firm on is the truth that revenues come from increased economic growth. we need pro growth economic positively to create jobs and generate revenues. the notion we'll go back to the clinton rates and it will be okay, we have other rates that have gone up which means the clinton rates are no longer the clinton rates. so we need to make clear this is not about are you going to raise these rates or those rates, it's about are we going to get spending under control? is the president going to stop
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spending other people's money, deal with debt and entitlements and get economic growth. >> you're going to have economic growth but it's not -- with the aging population, you cannot just cut entitlements willy-nilly without saying the rich have to make a sacrifice. >> chris: if they can follow our lead, we'll avoid the fiscal cliff. >> i agree. >> chris: owe boy, they're in trouble. check out panel plus where our group picks up with this discussion on our website. we'll post a video before noon eastern. follow us on twitter @foxnewssunday. next, our power player of the week.
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>>. >> chris: here is a holiday rid you'll we first asked you last year. who founded a huge tech company and created a cosmetic business and now raises turkeys like the indians did. our answer is the power player of the week. >> no your rainfall and no your weather and know your animals. >> she is talking about sustainable farming. raising livestock and growing
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vegetables without the chemicals that is common in factory farming. days before thanksgiving she took me out to see with her 1300 turkeys, heritage breeds that trace back to the indians. >> gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble. >> it's 800 acres in virginia. as interesting is her business is how she got here. she grew up on at farm in california making up raising cat toll send herself to college. >> what i learned was to love work. i'm happiest when i am engage and thinking and striving. >> chris: she got into computers in 1984 she and her then husband started cisco systems that found a way to link networks of computers. venture capital people were
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running cisco. >> chris: how do you get fired from a company you started? >> we got taken to the cleaners. part of that if you don't have a contract, i got fired by the same guy that fired steve jobs. [ laughter ] >> chris: she had a second act. she started a company called urban decay and in 1996 she bought the farm. >> it's been historically people who had disposable income that made strides in farming. look at george washington. >> she raises war horses that go back centuries. scott hyland cattle and turkeys she says tastes better. >> chris: how much does a turkey cost compared to the grocery store? >> our turkeys are expensive, i
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think they are running about $160-200. >> there are questions about how to make this kind of farming profitable but while she is determined to run a sound business it's not just about the bottom line. there is a 40 room mansion on the farm. >> chris: what it is like to live in there? >> i don't know. >> chris: do you think you are a bit eccentric? >> i now that i'm rich. i use to be just weird. >> chris: she grew up on a family farm and she wants to see those values live on? >> i'm a cow girl. i can tell what they are thinking. it's my success which is what george washington was. i've become a good farm are. >> chris: sandy learner sold about thousand turkeys this thanksgiving but gave 600


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